Transcript of June 2, 2009 Second Life Roundtable Discussion.
Topic: "Our Engaged is Not Their Engaged: The Myth of Undivided Attention." Special Guest: Harry Pence, (SL: John2 Kepler)
Photos Courtesy of Olivia Hotshot (visit her blog and Flickr photostream). See Olivia's Flickr group for the SLER to add your own photos. I transcribed AJ's and Harry's remarks from voice to text.
Points worth noting:
Links Mentioned:
Print Resource Mentioned:
Vie, Stephanie. “Digital Divide 2.0: ‘Generation M’ and Online Social Networking Sites in the Composition Classroom.” Computers and Composition 25.1 (2008): 9-23.
AJ Brooks: Hi everyone, and welcome to this weeks SL Education Roundtable.
AJ Brooks: These meetings are made possible by the Office of Information Technology at Montclair State University.
AJ Brooks: We meet here each week at 2:30pm SLT for an hour. Normally our meetings are roundtable in style.
AJ Brooks: We feature a specific theme and everyone sits around our magic expanding roundtable and we all contribute, using text chat.
AJ Brooks: Today is our Special 1st of the Month meeting, when we feature a particular person or panel of people.
AJ Brooks: For these Special First of the Month Meeting the guest(s) and I use voice chat. This means that you need to have your voice chat on.
AJ Brooks: There are help signs along the back wall of the Amphitheater.
AJ Brooks: If you are still having problems, please IM IGNATIOUT ONOMATOPOEIA for assistance.
AJ Brooks: It is very important that you keep your mic muted during the meeting.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: LOL
AJ Brooks: If you have a question for our guest, please IM me directly and, time and subject permitting, it will get addressed.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Ignoramus Onnagodadavida
AJ Brooks: The local chat is available as a back channel and I encourage everyone to use that to comment. The local chat can go by rather quickly
AJ Brooks: That is why its important that you IM your questions directly to me.
Viv Trafalgar: lol @Iggy
AJ Brooks: Our topic today is "Our Engaged is Not Their Engaged: The Myth of Undivided Attention."
AJ Brooks: And our very special guest is Harry Pence, (SL: John2 Kepler)
AJ Brooks: Before we get started, some announcements
AJ Brooks: This is a public meeting, so we do keep a transcript of what is said in local chat.
AJ Brooks: For the convenience of those unable to use voice, and for the history of the chat transcript, we do try to have transcribers.
AJ Brooks: Today's transcriber is IGNATIUS ONOMATOPOEIA
AJ Brooks: You can find a copy of our transcripts at their new home location, http://www.virtualworldsedu.info/slroundtable/
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: woooot
Zotarah Shepherd: Yay Iggy!
Birdie Newcomb: yes yes
AJ Brooks: Special thanks to our resident scribe, Iggy Onomatopoeia, for taking care of this. If you've not seen the transcripts, you should check them out - they are a great information asset.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: http://www.virtualworldsedu.info
AJ Brooks: For information on FUTURE MEETINGS, there is a notecard giver on the West wall of the Amphitheater.
Katie Fenstalker: hooray!
AJ Brooks: The SL Education Roundtable meeting happens each week and we are looking to develop a community of educators from around the world with a variety of thoughts, needs, and ideas.
AJ Brooks: Please join the SL EDUCATION ROUNDTABLE group. If you have problems finding it in search, just outside this amphitheater you will see several displays. By clicking the appropriate one you can join the group.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ noted the new site for SLER and Educause transcripts
AJ Brooks: As the group grows, there will be announcements, surveys, and decisions made that will be exclusive to the group.
AJ Brooks: Speaking of announcements, there is a new addition for educators to the CHSSSouth Amphitheater.
AJ Brooks: Just outside the Amphitheater, to the east side of the stairs (to the right as you head out), is a bulletin board.
AJ Brooks: Educators are welcome to add notes about events and other short term items to the board.
AJ Brooks: Click the top notecard giver to details and important instruction to follow on how to leave a note for others.
AJ Brooks: Aside from the island we are currently on, Montclair State University also has two other educational islands adjoining to the north.
AJ Brooks: There are also numerous learning areas on these adjoining islands, Montclair State CHSS and Montclair State CEHSADP, which is home to The Theorist Project and Wilber Middle School Library. Wander around and enjoy.
AJ Brooks: If you are on Facebook, please join our group there - http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=44078263753&ref=share
AJ Brooks: Thanks to Olivia Hotshot for putting together a Flickr group for the SLER. I encourage everyone to join the group and to take pictures from our meeting and add them to the group. Its a great way to show, and grow, our community.
AJ Brooks: Finally, if you have Mystitool on, or other similar tool, please put it to sleep or detach it for now. :-) It tends to lag things.
AJ Brooks: As a hint, it is better to have "local chat" open for these meetings, it will help you follow the conversation better.
AJ Brooks: You can find local chat by clicking COMMUNICATE in the bottom navigation bar and you'll find LOCAL CHAT as one of the tabs at the bottom of the Communicate window.
AJ Brooks: As a reminder, you are welcome to use the local chat as the back channel,
AJ Brooks: but questions for our guest should be IMed to me directly.
AJ Brooks: For those of you who do not know me....
AJ Brooks: I am AJ Kelton, Director of Emerging Instructional Technology for the College of Humanities and Social Sciences at Montclair State University
AJ Brooks: and the Coordinator of the Second Life Project for the College of Education and Human Services, also at MSU. We're located in northern New Jersey, just fourteen miles from midtown Manhattan.
AJ Brooks: With all that out of the way, why don't we get started.
AJ Brooks: Harry, welcome. I'm thrilled you are joining us today. I've been looking forward to this since we first chatted.
AJ Brooks: Why don't we start off by you telling us a little bit about yourself and your involvement in SL.
Chimera Cosmos: Yay Harry!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry thanks us for inviting him
hobbs Constantine: wahoo SUNY
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry is a retired Professor of Chemistry from SUNY Oneonta
AJ Brooks: use the hashtag #sler on twitter for this
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry has been in SL for a couple of years
AJ Brooks: 47 people on the sim
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: He mostly hangs around the Library Consortium...was asked to be manger of a concert hall
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: We found a colleague in music and got students to organize concerts...three semesters now
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: at first, admin at SUNY were not supportive
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: now he's coming up on three years in SL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry notes that since he retired
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: he became a Faculty Fellow for emerging technologies for the local teaching center
Kali Pizzaro: sounds familiar
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: pro bono ;)
Chimera Cosmos: PRO bono
Chimera Cosmos: hehe
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ admits that he came today without his usual notes and so on
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ asks Harry to explain the title for today's session
Katie Fenstalker: yes -- it fascinates me!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: "Our Engaged in Not Their Engaged: The Myth of Undivided Attention"
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry mentions Rheingold's blog
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and that R mentioned two types of attention..."multitasking" and "continuous partial attention"
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry notes that the original discussion he and AJ had was about ways to get students to focus their attention better
CathyWyo1 Haystack: it's a series of things
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ asks if we REALLY multitask
Kali Pizzaro: on my iphone and aol and webpage and listening to this
Esme Qunhua: I'm building a website as I listen
Pandora Kurrajong: According to some experts on how the brain works - multitasking is a myth
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry answers that he often does multiple things while on SL
Kali Pizzaro: hehe
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: b/c of chat-lag
Pandora Kurrajong: All we can do is quick switching
hobbs Constantine: that's actually an unfortunate feature of SL, you cannot BE in 2 places at once
Katie Fenstalker: multi task - many disparate things going; ? immersion many parallel sensory channels all converging?
Fred Brecher: multitasking is not multithreading - OS's evolved to allow multitasking before they could multithread.
Birdie Newcomb: we comment as you talk
Pandora Kurrajong: @hobbs or, by its nature by being in SL you ARE in two places at once
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ notes that we say computers are getting faster, but really just swap tasks quickly
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: He wonders if humans are the same way
Pandora Kurrajong: @Iggy Dr. Martin Westwell thinks so
Jackie Rexen: I always multi-tasked - throughout my life - tech just makes it easier to do so. Maybe a type of learning style.
hobbs Constantine: @Pandora, indeed, a third life requirement? lol
CathyWyo1 Haystack: pat your head and rub your stomach at the same time :)
Pandora Kurrajong: And I think Malcom Gladwell made the same point in Outliers
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: And asks if young people can simply process info faster
Jonathon Dunn: efficient context switching
Pandora Kurrajong: Dr. Westwell actually says older people better at fast switching
hobbs Constantine: @Pandora _i'm reading that now, don't give away the end
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry answers that he's never had a college student say "that's too much" when he presents using voice and screen
Viv Trafalgar: "Yes"
Pandora Kurrajong: @hobbs They all live happily ever after
hobbs Constantine: nods
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: harry answers to those who have trouble "I expect you to do all three"
Kavon Zenovka: we call it walking and chewing gum at the same time
Fred Brecher: Multitasked ever since I began doing homework while watching the TV wasteland.
Kali Pizzaro: Can men do it ;-0 only joking hehe
Kavon Zenovka: or you hear my brain hurts if you are showing a lot
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry mentions that he thinks there is a difference in processing speed for young minds
Katie Fenstalker: parallel content multiply sensorially engaged.
Pandora Kurrajong: Is it a matter of conditioning? Look at how movies have changed in terms of filling in the blanks for us
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ remarks on how SAT measures both how fast one reads AND how well one recalls the content
Pandora Kurrajong: It could be cultural
hobbs Constantine: personally, I do NOT believe in true multitasking.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: It's possible that students are processing materials faster but not retaining it
Pandora Kurrajong: From my readings, I'd agree @hobbs
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry notes that when he was young, the "hot thing" was how fast one read
hobbs Constantine: huh
Kali Pizzaro: mmnnnn
Katie Fenstalker: I used to do speed readings -- sort of true -- depends.
Jackie Rexen: Research: Technology, kids, & telly http://bit.ly/vNtxn
Birdie Newcomb: now it's how fast you can channel surf
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: notes claim from then that fast readers retained MORE...but reading-speed has gone out of fashion
Katie Fenstalker: depends on visually processing.
Venus Quintessa: how long ago was that.. need to think history.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ says he still cannot read critically on the screen. His 15-year-old niece can do so fine
Chimera Cosmos: my kids are todays kids--I think they are way cool :-)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Also AJ wonders what sort of reading we are talking about: blogs, academic, etc.
Venus Quintessa: today's kids and their learning.. thank you.. we needed that persepctive.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ asks Harry, joints creaking, "How about them kids today?"
Venus Quintessa: tee hee
hobbs Constantine: lol
Chimera Cosmos: I knew it! Dinosaurs co-existed with Harry!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry notes that lately, when he gives talks to students, that they are not the real "Web generation"
Venus Quintessa: a swingin dinosaur
Pandora Kurrajong: Is web generation the new Digital Immigrant?
Pandora Kurrajong: sorry, new Digital Native?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and that kids in grade school ARE and will replace them on the job market. Surprisingly, the students agreed.
Pandora Kurrajong: My nephew is almost 4 and has had his own computer since he was 2 and a half
Venus Quintessa: paradigm shift
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: These K-5 kids are the "digital generation" and at a point of change
Maggie Marat: /tab Join WoW in School on RezEd.org!
Chimera Cosmos: them and the early adopters and privileged kids who are a bit older
Pandora Kurrajong: I agree - because tech isn't ubiquitous
Kali Pizzaro: yeah aj
Jackie Rexen: NOOO don't bring it up!
Kali Pizzaro: good point
Pandora Kurrajong: Computers are still in labs, still not a part of mainstream living in most households
Katie Fenstalker: how about games generations? New school Quest to Learn opening in NYC in the Fall.
Chimera Cosmos: Hi Pandora :-)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ wants to avoid bringing up terminology such as "natives" later
Pandora Kurrajong: Once the e is taken out of e-learning
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but wonders why this is so
Pandora Kurrajong: then we'll have something going there
Jackie Rexen: But he brought it up anyhow LOL
hobbs Constantine: hmmmm.....
Kali Pizzaro: at pandora depends where you live and your age according to national stats
Pandora Kurrajong: Hi @Chimera
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry answers that it's partly computing power and partly continuous exposure
Pandora Kurrajong: @Kali exactly how can we say a generation is digital
Pandora Kurrajong: when there isn't ubiquity?
Kali Pizzaro: exactly
Venus Quintessa: good question
Pandora Kurrajong: lolol
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ reminds us that we are talking about "being engaged" and asks how we define it
Katie Fenstalker: engaged = attention? or immersion?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry replies that it involves being focused on the matter at hand
Maggie Marat: invested
Venus Quintessa: multi-engaged?
Avery Beeswing: Olivia and Cotton, I'm seated above you in the stands--thanks for the help getting here.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: w/ several matters at hand, harder to be engaged.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Multitasking leads to loss of focus
Tegan Jenvieve: the problem is that the part of our brain that multitasks is in the frontallobes and that matures in the late teens
Venus Quintessa: true so how is that engagement
Birdie Newcomb: perhaps they are immersed, not focused.
Katie Fenstalker: age?
Venus Quintessa: yep
Avery Beeswing: Engaged is connected both with oneself as a learner and with others.
Pandora Kurrajong: But aren't some things like driving? You may be doing fast switching, but after a while it goes below consciousness
Venus Quintessa: 72
Katie Fenstalker: mental processing alters over time?
Tegan Jenvieve: its a spot called boardmans Area 10
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry adds that is is very difficult for older generations to maintain focus with amount of info that comes our way
sammy Chieng: well said, i totally agree
Venus Quintessa: ykes
Jackie Rexen: Fully Engaged = Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi on flow http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/mihaly_csikszentmihalyi_on_flow.html
CathyWyo1 Haystack: /mg suspend
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ notes avg SL age is 35-37...older crowd
Venus Quintessa: older-- 37?
Kali Pizzaro: me!
Katie Fenstalker: meet a lot of retired folks.
Chimera Cosmos: I think there is no unified "we" - our experiences and our cognition vary a ton even if the same age
CathyWyo1 Haystack: yes a lot of retired people
hobbs Constantine: yah
Pandora Kurrajong: @Chimera I so agree
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ notes that in one of the virtual worlds, ages tend to be very young
Venus Quintessa: got it
Tegan Jenvieve: a friend did an educational survey and the group that responded most was 60 year olds
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ adds that for older people, it's a matter of practice
Venus Quintessa: todays 60 is 37
Kali Pizzaro: yeah chimera good point
Pandora Kurrajong: @Venus, don't think so
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: b/c we have not been doing this as long as our students
Katie Fenstalker: (I love "today's 60 is 37")
CathyWyo1 Haystack: that's true for me
Venus Quintessa: :-(
CathyWyo1 Haystack: haha
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: older people watched TV differently
hobbs Constantine: snickers. What is in the Tickle Trunk today?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Seven channels for him (3 for me)
Venus Quintessa: I'm younger at 60 than I was at 30
Katie Fenstalker: (stopped watching TV to do SL)
CathyWyo1 Haystack: I don't think kids today watch tv????
Tegan Jenvieve: its a matter of what they grew up with too
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yes..no TV since 1979 :)
CathyWyo1 Haystack: I did too I don't have cable anymore
CathyWyo1 Haystack: anymore
Maggie Marat: h oh
Maggie Marat: not the "L" word
Julie Sugarplum: I lack in tv too
Chimera Cosmos: but when more TV became available, I immediately adopted the newer way of viewing -- just my nature
CathyWyo1 Haystack: after being in SL it seems strange to watch tv now
Katie Fenstalker: We know more about how we got here?
Maggie Marat: literacy vs fluency
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry adds that there's a difference in levels in competence
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: older folks understand how things work better
Avery Beeswing: Is technology perhaps blurring age as a clear descriptor? What does age mean, exactly? What does age mean as a learner? You can be a luddite at any age
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: younger are more attuned to using the devices
Jetty Shoreman: Right - think about when all these devices were created - not just consumed.
Pandora Kurrajong: Good one - was just going to grab that link
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ put up graph of latest quarter of data
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: from KZero
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: of time of use of VWs and age
Chimera Cosmos: Devices used to be simpler to master and some "grownups" (not us in here) have never adjusted to having to make the effort to learn
Zotarah Shepherd: Knowing how a light switch works v switching it on
Jackie Rexen: http://www.kzero.co.uk/blog/?page_id=2563
Chimera Cosmos: to take the time needed-- the ongoing practice
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Red spheres represent subscriber base
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry saw a similar study
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: of how many unique users on various VWs in a month
Kali Pizzaro: yeah still get folk looking at me as if i am mad for exploring Sl for teaching
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: SL came in at 500,000
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: way at top: Club Penguin & Webkinz
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: 10X the number of subscribers
Maggie Marat: World of Warcraft - 17 million
Pandora Kurrajong: Hobbo hotel
Tegan Jenvieve: Its not just children, adults go oni it too
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Metaplace offers a model that might cross the divide...Habbo for older crowd
Birdie Newcomb: And they're not permitted on Main Grid until age 18
Firery Broome: now is the Sims users
Edith Halderman: runescape
Venus Quintessa: or else they underestimate S/L-- today's college students
Pandora Kurrajong: Interestingly enough- the graphics aren't the big draw
CathyWyo1 Haystack: that is true!!!!
Birdie Newcomb: Teen Grid is a joke
Maggie Marat: I have
Tegan Jenvieve: Yes, they do in some sandbox worlds like Garys Mod
Pandora Kurrajong: @Birdie - why is TG a joke?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ notes that this experience has not led to familiarity with SL
Edith Halderman: no building
Kavon Zenovka: no content creation - put can purchase
Tegan Jenvieve: plenty of Sandbox stuff
Jackie Rexen: My elementary Gifted kids are jealous when I tell them what I am building in SL
Edith Halderman: but has the training wheels kids need
CathyWyo1 Haystack: do we want a generation of kids who are passively engaged or actively involved in the creation of their space
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry adds that the spaces for kids do not encourage the sort of creativity we see in SL
CathyWyo1 Haystack: again it is tv on steroids
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: limited ability to build and customize
Birdie Newcomb: @Pandora -- compared to Main Grid, it's very limited, for teens and for adults
Venus Quintessa: consumerism
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ notes it's mostly for socialization
hobbs Constantine: ouch
CathyWyo1 Haystack: true true
Katie Fenstalker: they are punished for being actively engaged.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry remarks on Cathy's remark: do we want active or passive students?
Jackie Rexen: too much noise
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry knows a student who went to a H.S. where she and a team tried cooperative learning.
hobbs Constantine: no no no no no
Venus Quintessa: scary
Edith Halderman: that would be me
CathyWyo1 Haystack: oh no they need ritalin
CathyWyo1 Haystack: haha
Avery Beeswing: Aren't we possibly redefining active engagement and passive engagement? Is building in SL that much different than in actuality--there's a process, planning, and a product...
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Principal put them at the end of the hall b/c they were making too much noise and having fun
Venus Quintessa: yes,
Kali Pizzaro: yeah that is what we use in higher education i the UK
Pandora Kurrajong: Yet they keep building schools with rooms with desks facing front towards one focal point
Kali Pizzaro: Social constructivism
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ hopes we are moving toward Freireian learning and away from Banking Concept
Katie Fenstalker: (attention?)
Kavon Zenovka: don't cry there are more like her out there
Ignatius Onomatopoeia is not so sure--teaching to test argues we are moving BACK to banking
Maggie Marat: web 3.0 plz
Venus Quintessa: constructivist learning vs. banking system
Kali Pizzaro: biggs
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ hopes learning will move under pressure/influence of Web 2.0
Edith Halderman: hope springs eternal
Katie Fenstalker: teaching to test is mistaking the map for the territory.
Kali Pizzaro: Banking?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry notes that those who run the system must become involved themselves for change to come
hobbs Constantine: that's a huge thought
Chimera Cosmos: I think you could poll a stadium full of science profs and not one would know who Friere is -- or what his ideas were
Tegan Jenvieve: Command and control has to go!!!!!!!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Kali-ask me later
Kali Pizzaro: ok
Edith Halderman: but, katie, we here are the choir
Venus Quintessa: teaching to the test
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ notes that school systems set up for standardized testing
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and students must learn what they need to know to pass the test
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry states that he was looking at a diagram of The Conversation Prism
Edith Halderman: but it is all about community
Edith Halderman: bingo
Julie Sugarplum: http://www.flickr.com/photos/briansolis/2735401175/
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: that shows different sorts of engagement, as petals of a flower
Avery Beeswing: Devil's advocate here...do standardized tests force the possibility of equal access?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: by types of software/VWs/social networking
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: networks
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry notes that disaster will result if teachers do not adjust to what students need/expect
Edith Halderman: which is the game of school
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Yay, Harry..you are my hero
Kavon Zenovka: no don't reach further
Pandora Kurrajong: Bye bye
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry notes colleague who refuses to use e-mail
Jackie Rexen: http://theconversationprism.com/
Pandora Kurrajong: Go make sandwiches in the cafeteria to that guy
CathyWyo1 Haystack: I was thinking today
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ asks if Harry has taught outside Higher ed
hobbs Constantine: thanks Jackie!
Venus Quintessa: have to run.. thanks for the inspiring discussion
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry replies he's not--had one stint teaching some HS students in an AP class.
hobbs Constantine: no teacher left behind
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: In Modern Astronomy..and students knew enough to carry the class :)
Katie Fenstalker: (I love "no teacher left behind")
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: WOW
Chimera Cosmos: hahahaha
Avery Beeswing: no parent left behind?
Eliasdehart Sixpence: Interesting article from Chronicle of Higher Education:
"Students Prefer Real Classroom to Virtual World"
http://chronicle.com/wiredcampus/article/?id=3797&utm_source=at&utm_medium=en
(I am not taking a position about the claims – just passing on)
CathyWyo1 Haystack: about technology and how we we sometimes seem to fight an uphill battle getting it implemented and spend a lot of time justifying it's use and wondered..if we didn't have to put our energy into that and could just implement change in using technology in education what would the change be that we would see...
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ asks in Harry's years of teaching, he's seen dramatic changes in tech TV, video conf.
Edith Halderman: they don't get it
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: what does he think VWs will do?
Edith Halderman: those are tools
Maggie Marat: be the change
Edith Halderman: it is process not tools
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry said that it's easy to discount current situation..higher ed. is resistant to change.
Maggie Marat: demand the change
Kali Pizzaro: @ella yeah i have read a lot of that recently
Chimera Cosmos: But what type of classroom and what kind of teacher? re: "Students Prefer Real Classroom to Virtual World"
Kavon Zenovka: I hate the "might have made"
Maggie Marat: students and even parents must speak up
Pandora Kurrajong: Give a crap teacher great tools and you're not going to have better learning - it's about pedagogy
Chimera Cosmos: they deal in generalities in those articles!
Zotarah Shepherd: K-12 education also has resistance to change
Jackie Rexen: APPLAUSE!!!!
hobbs Constantine: oo, some hope?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry things that change is so pervasive, so powerful, that "this one may be for real"
Edith Halderman: @Pandora yes
CathyWyo1 Haystack: true true it is about pedagogy
Jackie Rexen: NP
Pandora Kurrajong: and we keep trying to use old pedagogy to new tools and wonder why they don't work
Birdie Newcomb: ty
Avery Beeswing: Sometimes "resistance" is lack of funding or implementation time.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ asks why are VWs so "pervasive" that they make such a diff?
Kavon Zenovka: true immersion?
CathyWyo1 Haystack: my concern is can we let go of being the "doers" as educators and let the students do it on their own with our guidance
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry replies that it's not just VWs...but you have a stronger sense of presence than in video confs
Chimera Cosmos: yes--so true Harry
hobbs Constantine: raises eyebrows
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: in SL, "you become your avatar, and in a strange way, your avatar becomes you"
Birdie Newcomb: and how you drink...
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Proteus Effect?
Sumo Itano: Cathy -- that's a key question. Most of us aren't in this business to be out of the center ... lol
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Nicky Yee's work
Maggie Marat: avatar identity + real world identity = projected identity
Chimera Cosmos: and his boss too
Chimera Cosmos: Jeremy
CathyWyo1 Haystack: yes VW s allow for a "self created learning experience
CathyWyo1 Haystack: the key is experience
CathyWyo1 Haystack: I think
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry told the students that they had to dress the part for the musical event
CathyWyo1 Haystack: students will want an experience..
Kavon Zenovka: or is it that our mirror neurons understand VWs
Maggie Marat: lost opportunity there
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Students did not know where to go for SL clothing for formal wear
hobbs Constantine: oooooooooooooooo
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry was watching a student watch her avi get dressed...and noted look of wonder
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry notes that student responded profoundly
Avery Beeswing: Brain based research tells us that "doing" in a virtual world has impact on us, too.
Birdie Newcomb: our better selves
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ asks, how we get from where we are to where we need to be
Edith Halderman: demolish the education system?
Chimera Cosmos: there is no "we" in the "where we need to be" equation
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry notes that we are facing an interesting problem
Chimera Cosmos: no agreement
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: b/c the disparity in student experience is so broad now
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry says you used to be able to aim at the middle, but now
Zotarah Shepherd: Digital divide
Jackie Rexen: Students are creating their own PLNs
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: b/c of online experience, we have so many students engaged in online work that they have a great advantage
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Notes Wiki/Blog use in HS is running 20-30%
Birdie Newcomb: @Jackie PLN?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Not the 50% we'd expect
hobbs Constantine: yup
Kali Pizzaro: yep
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: OMG JUST what we see at RIchmond
Edith Halderman: alway will have those kids
Jackie Rexen: Personal Learning Network'
Kali Pizzaro: lol
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry says it's not his problem...he's retired
Maggie Marat: then they are in the wrong class - no passion brought to the table - and that is the fault of the k-12 sector these kids have had no opportunity to discover their passion
Kavon Zenovka: cop-out ;)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ mentions his thesis about technology, access, and the basic writer
Pandora Kurrajong: - it is all our problem - we have a generation that can only solve mutliple choice problems
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: BTW, great article online about "Digital Divide 2.0" on facutly/student gap
Esme Qunhua is Offline
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'll put the URL in the transcript
Martinix Pizzaro: thanks
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ notes that at Montclair that they see huge differences based on access
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: at home--and it's a cultural divide
Jetty Shoreman: Is purpose of education learning, or ranking students? :)
Kali Pizzaro: yep
Pandora Kurrajong: @Jetty - ask the pollies
Edith Halderman: isn't that an economic divide?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry agrees
Kavon Zenovka: why not teach to the top and bring the res along if we can
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: And notes that we are training a generation of multiple-choice test-takers
Pandora Kurrajong: Try getting customer service people in their early 20s to think outside the box
Kavon Zenovka: learning in spite of themselves
Pandora Kurrajong: It depends on the teacher
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: becomes a Q of how much a teacher can cheat and teach well, instead of to the test
Jackie Rexen: out of school pursuits is what is going to make a difference to many of this school age generation
Pandora Kurrajong: Teacher is still the biggest influencer of student learning outcomes
Pandora Kurrajong: I don't think I was and I'm 44
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ responds that we took such tests
Jarrad Voom: Sure it is
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but Harry notes that today "The tests are everything"
Birdie Newcomb: new idea: teachers need to cheat -- hmmm
Chimera Cosmos: It's the intrusion of NCLB
Katie Fenstalker: 1970s was different.
Chimera Cosmos: right
hobbs Constantine: for sure
Edith Halderman: i was not taught the test
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yes---tests determine life now..like European tests
Chimera Cosmos: the Dept of Ed and Gov getting into the mess
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: No child left untested
Chimera Cosmos: eep!!!!!
Pandora Kurrajong: hehehehe
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry notes that colleague talked about how process has gone for NCLB
Pandora Kurrajong: It all depends on how you define "success"
Katie Fenstalker: @Iggy (laugh ruefully)
Chimera Cosmos: how reassuring---ugh
hobbs Constantine: ough
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: scores have gone up as teachers learned to teach to the test
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Politicos love it, but it's not learning
Chimera Cosmos: Yes Pandora--what you believe education is "for"
Pandora Kurrajong: As long as there are grades, we'll have risk-averse educators and learners
Kali Pizzaro: yeah in the UK it is a bit like don't let anyone feel like they have failed. However, then they can't get into Uni as their grades are not good enough
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry notes that SL is his first VW experience
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ asks, five years from now, what will we be talking about?
Pandora Kurrajong: What if there were no grades?
Katie Fenstalker: (how many different virtual worlds should we have some experience with?)
Katie Fenstalker: (I never had grades.)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry notes about discovering SL in Wired (as did I)
Avery Beeswing: What about teachers who excused their lack of preparation and effort to teach students from some backgrounds? How can we impact that, without buying into teaching to tests? Can we have a multifaceted approach?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry felt he had to try it
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: to him, SL is something about of SF. He did read Snowcrash
Edith Halderman: @Pandora what if there were no school buildings?
Pandora Kurrajong: @Edith I'd be passing a lot fewer kids who look exhausted and unhappy
Pandora Kurrajong: as I drive to work
Edith Halderman: :)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry thinks we are moving toward "the conversation"...look at Google's The Wave
Chimera Cosmos: Yes--all about conversations--and getting people to engage in them outside of their usual boundaries
Dusty Artaud: Wave will transform so much!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: We'll see now collaborative software to enable global work. Moving electrons, not people.
Avery Beeswing: Edith, I like your idea--the money could be better spent on other things than the physical factory of public schools.
Pandora Kurrajong: @Dusty Google is banned in several jurisdictions in Australia
Edith Halderman: remember kids go to school for 2 reasons
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The conversation is what it is all about, Harry says.
Dusty Artaud: lol
Edith Halderman: 1. their friends are there
Edith Halderman: 2. we make them
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ asks what advice to give to teachers
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry says "avoid technology, it can lead you not to get tenure, unless you can find something that takes no time"
Pandora Kurrajong: Jeez, now there's a mouthful
Chimera Cosmos: gaak! I keep missing those Educause events!
Jackie Rexen: Cool blog posted yesterday - Linden Lab needs to read Snow Crash again - http://fuzzybuzz.wordpress.com/2009/06/01/linden-lab-needs-to-read-snow-crash-again/
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ notes that questioner at EDUCAUSE event who is on a T&P Commitee
Chimera Cosmos digs around in inventory for a better calendar...
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: asked about how VWs might count into T&P process
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry asks about Kuhn and
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Structure of Scientific Revolutions
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: YES
Pandora Kurrajong: hehehe
Jackie Rexen: LOL
Edith Halderman: (enthusiastic applause)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Notes how new ideas in science do not come about until old guard die off
Pandora Kurrajong: are we suggesting assassinations?
Chimera Cosmos: (shhhhhh)
Kavon Zenovka: sad
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry says that for the EDUCAUSE questioner, it would begin with going into SL oneself
hobbs Constantine: live long and prosper
Pandora Kurrajong: huh?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry notes how colleague was discouraged to put articles about educational tech into T&P portfolio
Pandora Kurrajong: Jeebus
Edith Halderman: ridiculous
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: even though she was hired to work in that area...
Sumo Itano: Isn't academe grand? lol
Maggie Marat: hell no we don't-- sorry but the educational anarchist in me is screaming......
Pandora Kurrajong: I couldn't work in Higher Ed
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Pandora..it's stilll a good life
Maggie Marat: it is no longer time to "rock the boat" but it IS time to "sink the ship!"
Jackie Rexen: APPLAUSE!!!!
Chimera Cosmos watches Harry's head explode LOL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: you just have to be a con man and trickster :D
Jackie Rexen: LOL Maggie
Kavon Zenovka: thank you
Edith Halderman: AMEN @Maggie
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ's last Q: what advice in general would you give these folks?
Firery Broome: Thank you AJ for such a great guest!!! and thanks John2 for being here.
Kavon Zenovka: hopefully
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry says, to quote Al Jolson, "You ain't seen nothing yet."
Viv Trafalgar: Thank you AJ and Harry
Kali Pizzaro: thanks
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Harry imagines that anything he can imagine in technology already exists
George Linden: Thanks very much!!
Katie Fenstalker: thanks for encouragement -- as in courage.
Jackie Rexen: Way fun today!
Kavon Zenovka: thank you
Maggie Marat: on that note- I am off to watch MY STUDENTS present their movie No Future Left Behind to the SCHOOL BOARD! LOL Im in JUST the right mood now
hobbs Constantine: Thank you Harry!!
Fred Brecher: Thank you.
Zotarah Shepherd claps
JeanClaude Vollmar: Thank Harry!
Edith Halderman: tell them to break a leg
Ullamh Shim: Thanks AJ and Harry for a great conversation.
Maggie Marat: THank you Harry -- much food for thought
Jarrad Voom: Thank you Harry
Maggie Marat: THey will tell the truth. Nuf said :-)
Jarrad Voom: thank you AJ
Maggie Marat: Bye all thanks AJ!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia has blisters on his fingers! G&T time!
Robin Mochi: thanks!
Pandora Kurrajong: yay
Edith Halderman: (enthusiastic applause)
Zotarah Shepherd: Thank you AJ
Dusty Artaud: Thank you great conversation!
Jackie Rexen: Do you have a stand and bow animation?
Alan Sandalwood: How do I ping wiht this system?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: good night all!