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VWER 2-10-11_027

Transcript of the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable Feb 10, 2011

Photos by Lolly. Join our VWER groups at Flickr and Koinup to add your own pictures!

Topic: Open Forum

Olivia Hotshot: Hi everyone, and welcome to our weekly Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable meeting. We meet here each week at 2:30 pm SLT for an hour.

Olivia Hotshot: The Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable is a forum to educate and inform the community about issues that are important and relevant to education.

Olivia Hotshot: Today's meeting, "VWER Open Forum" will be in TEXT CHAT only.

Olivia Hotshot: The views and opinions of any of our special guests or visitors do not necessarily represent those who volunteer or organize these meetings.

Olivia Hotshot: This is a public meeting, so we do keep a transcript of what is said in local chat. For a copy of transcripts, please visit http//

Olivia Hotshot: The Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable meeting happens each week and we are looking to develop a community of educators from around the world with a variety of thoughts, needs, and ideas.

Olivia Hotshot: Please join the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable group here in SL. You can also find us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Flicker, and KoinUp, as well as on Twitter as VWER.

Olivia Hotshot: Finally, if you are wearing scripted attachments, please put them to sleep or detach it for now. -) It tends to lag things.

Olivia Hotshot: I'm Olivia, today's moderator for this group. If you've not seen the transcripts Iggy runs, you should check them out - they are a great information asset.

Olivia Hotshot: Now then, it's time to get started. please introduce yourself to the group. I am Ann Steckel, a techie and math educator from Cal State University, Chico who is managing 2 campuses for the university, building a new one for Stockton College of NJ, as wel

Sheila Yoshikawa: I teach in the Information School at the University of Sheffield, UK

JeanClaude Vollmar: I'm Jeff Le Blanc from the University of Northwestern Ohio. I'm the VP for IT there and I help support the faculty that use SL.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia is Joe Essid, Dept. of Rhetoric and Communication Studies. I've taught four courses with SL and will move my teaching, including the House of Usher simulation, to Jokaydia Grid in 2011. Just ask for Roderick Usher over there!

Margaret Michalski: Margaret Czart, Research Information Specialist, University of Illinois at Chicago.

Icsconnect Voom: Dick Huiras, President/CEO H & A International - Senior Leadership training and owner of the ICS-Connect Center for Learning in SL

Lolly Dovgal: I am Laura Sederberg, lucky to get to work with Olivia/Ann. i am trying to stay abreast of SL and other new and emmersive technologies available for our faculty at Chico State.

Profdan Netizen: Dan Holt, Lansing Community College, Lansing, MI. I teach writing, both fy composition and creative writing online and in SL.

Alan Sandalwood: Alan Haywood. IT in EFL

Hattie Haystack: Gail Hanson Brenner, Clinical Nursing Instructor, University of Wisconsin - Eau Claire

Shandily Wycliffe: jim bailey, Lane community college, computer science and game development

Wrenaria Antiesse: Kimmy Hescock, visual info designer/SL content creator at Oregon State University

Grizzla Pixelmaid: Chris Robinson, Virtual EdTech Assistant, Georgia Gwinnett College.

Hour Destiny: I am Morris Cox, a temporarily unemployed tech that worked for a nonprofit that helped people with disabilities become more independent.

Kavon Zenovka: Kae Novak - Instructional Designer from Front Range Community College in Colorado

Olivia Hotshot: any one else?

toBe Destiny: Paul Prueitt Professor of Mathematics and Cyber Security

Olivia Hotshot: OK then. This is an open forum today, however I am going to start us off with a prompt to get the conversation going.

Olivia Hotshot: Let me start with a question: How many of you read the SLED list?

Olivia Hotshot: yes or no?

Gramma Fiddlesticks: I am.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yes

Grizzla Pixelmaid: no

Profdan Netizen: y

toBe Destiny: SLED stands for?

Gramma Fiddlesticks: yes

Icsconnect Voom: no

Hattie Haystack: havent' in a long time

Margaret Michalski: yes

Lolly Dovgal: sometimes

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: SL Educators = SLED

Joyfull Tomorrow: not lsately

Marc Rexen: y

toBe Destiny: ah

JeanClaude Vollmar: no

toBe Destiny: sometimes

Wrenaria Antiesse: I receive it, but am months behind in actually reading it

Grizzla Pixelmaid: I should correct - not lately.

Shandily Wycliffe: do not get it

Olivia Hotshot: Well to be truthful, i just scan it. Recently though there has been a lot of discussion about student reactions to new technology - sepcifically virtual worlds.

Kavon Zenovka: read Iggy's blog

Sheila Yoshikawa: I get it, but diverted into a separate email folder and I only look at it sometimes

Olivia Hotshot: The conversation is dealing with negative reactions. My dear friend, the esteemed Iggy, has said this: Paraphrased reactions:

* Our generation wants transparency

* How do you know the person behind the avatar is who they say they are?

* This will *never* fly in a business setting, especially if someone comes to a meeting wearing a set of wings or a raccoon head

* Even a setting like Protosphere, with business-only avatars (I got a quick screenshot) is not serious enough and could lead to mistrust.

Etc. etc. I could argue that they'd change their minds after a few weeks using a virtual world, but the class is not even remotely related to the topic.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thanks Kavon...good for either making you angry or sleepy :)

Olivia Hotshot: So.......that being said - lets talk about WHY we think students have negative reactions about the use of new technology in their courses.

Olivia Hotshot: anyone with a guess?

Olivia Hotshot: just shout it out

Lolly Dovgal: Some students still say, "You are paid to lecture me."

Grizzla Pixelmaid: We're about to pull our first group of students in this month, so I want to hear this!

Margaret Michalski: they may not be technology savvy

toBe Destiny: well, the material has not been developed outside of a very few disciplines

Jewle Rae: they need more hugs and loving attention in RL - only so much technology can do.

Kavon Zenovka: @ Iggy - no good and yes interesting reaction not atypical

Hour Destiny: Fear of the unknown is probably the biggest one.

toBe Destiny: so for example, real education in STEM disciplines is rare

Sheila Yoshikawa: If they find it non-intuitive to use and can't see why they are having to battle with it

Grizzla Pixelmaid: So far, the prof who's planning to do it is getting positive anticipation from the students. But she's a jewel, and a great SLevangelist.

Olivia Hotshot: Fear of a lower grade because they could not handle the tech?

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: they have been taught to fear any anonymity online through "Internet Safety Training" in the US. My wife has to do this stuff and it's all scare-mongering wrapped around some very commonsensical ideas

toBe Destiny: the tech stands in the way all too often

Icsconnect Voom: We are getting very positive reactions from our students

Marc Rexen: It takes days to week to "surmount" the technology so it becomes transparent and communication most important.

toBe Destiny: the studies show that this positive reaction is not sustainable

Kavon Zenovka: I go into about 5- 10 classes per semester as the " embedded" instructional designer

Shandily Wycliffe: My students enjoy it, including those who take intro courses with no idea what they are getting into

toBe Destiny: for more than a few months

Grizzla Pixelmaid: I assume the ones who are afraid of who's-behind-the-av have no experience with WoW etc?

Kavon Zenovka: different reactions depending on the class

Marc Rexen: Saw this in an emerging technologies course run by NCSA. We struggled for weeks with Xerox Parc and web-videocasting with remote instructors.

Gramma Fiddlesticks wonders how many students were actually spoken with for this study and in what country they were located?

toBe Destiny: again if it is a technology course then it is not a general education discipline

Marc Rexen: At one point, from week to week, they replaced every machine in the instruction room to get duplex soundcards (unlimited budget).

Betz Darwinian: i have to leave....rj = Real Job sigh calls.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Grizzla, yes. Gamers and Texters seem to be two different varieties of Homo Sapiens

Profdan Netizen: Well, some of the fear has to do with WoW, and knowing friends or family who are "addicted" to the game.

Kavon Zenovka: for business classes we show the $$ amount spent on virtual goods and build the case why they ned to know about the business of virtual goods

Grizzla Pixelmaid: I agree with Gramma

Alan Sandalwood: @Gramma . Very pertinent question

Icsconnect Voom: One of the problems is our technology is far ahead of what the average computor is designed to handle without special drivers and video cards

Hour Destiny: Ignorance is also huge factor.

toBe Destiny: and this is where we sense that new tools might become available allowing free use of virtual worlds in the development of real educational content and delivery

toBe Destiny: .

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Dan, when you ask them to do self-analysis of their Facebook or texting time, they get scared too

Marc Rexen: Then the day before Thanksgiving occured...lots of bandwidth, everything worked, and I realized I didn't spend one second thinking technology -- only what the instructors were saying.

Profdan Netizen: That's changing each semester, Dick.

Margaret Michalski: my problem was old computers so things would get laggy for the students

Marc Rexen: Getting to this point takes time with any new interface.

Profdan Netizen: I bet, Iggy.

Icsconnect Voom: Yes, Dan and I think that will be corrected as the technology in here becomes better allowing more computer access

Gramma Fiddlesticks: I also wonder just how much time the students who were spoken with actuallu spent in a virtual world?

toBe Destiny: for example. threading the discussions using semantic extraction and routing individuals into common discussions using TPs is an easy solution to this mess of a text "discussion"

Olivia Hotshot: About the time Ð seems to me students do not take into account the time it takes for tech + the time it takes for an assignment - so they see it as a HUGE amount of work if the tech is unfamiliar

Hour Destiny: I still get people who claim SL is a game.

Sheila Yoshikawa: @Olivia agree

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Gramma, it was not a study--it was a spontaneous eruption after a student simply asked about SL

Olivia Hotshot: @Shelia - also the perception with faculty too i am afraid

toBe Destiny: but we do not do this, and SL is not about to introduct true intelligence tools. or knowledge management tools

Meredith Winslet: Agreed Olivia

toBe Destiny: true?

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: On SLED you can see it's not an isolated reaction

Marc Rexen: The current client for VW's is "everything for everybody." What is needed are subsets, incredibly easy to learn, that allow for simple access.

Olivia Hotshot: Iggy, i think it would be fair to say that this thread on SLED is getting lots of play

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but an empirical study of Millennial-Gen students' reactions to non-transparency online would be superb and publishable.

Kavon Zenovka: @ Iggy not it's not and when you get a great reaction in a class you just get so happy.

Icsconnect Voom: We found that new students coming in and getting an account was very difficult and left a back taste for SL - - So we created avatars that are ready with AO's and all the preference set. Made a major difference

toBe Destiny: so the discussions cannot be serious and really can not develop in the way that might develop given our current understanding of social network dynamcis

toBe Destiny: .

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Kavon, the group LOVED the experience

Marc Rexen: They can graduate to more complex, or different clients, as needed.

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toBe Destiny: we just chatter along

Hour Destiny: So the learning curve is a huge issue.

Marc Rexen: yes.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I could dance if you prefer, toBe

toBe Destiny: ignoring each other

Icsconnect Voom: Also have a intro class to SL before getting started with the regular was a great benefit

Grizzla Pixelmaid: I'm currently creating 40 avatars for students (got the idea from somebody here) to fast-track them in getting started in SL.

Kavon Zenovka: I just had my first LOVED the experience their first time in. But we had used other tech all throughout the semester. Nd yes we had pre-made avatars.

toBe Destiny: IO ... and what does dancing have to do with anything

Marc Rexen: fThe web client was easy as voice...but if it had voice, it would be perfect for simple meetings.

toBe Destiny: ?

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: or lecture (/me looks for John Housmann outfit)

Icsconnect Voom: We have 10 avatar of each sex ready to go - kind of a loan-an-avatar

Profdan Netizen: Most students with reasonable computers, and a decent connection can get up to speed in SL in an hour or two, enough to get around, and another hour or so to do a scavenger hunt that gets them relatively comfortable.

Kavon Zenovka: lecture is safe, passive and they know exactly what to do.

toBe Destiny: the text chat here is a study in memetic warfare

toBe Destiny: smiels

Alan Sandalwood: A ray of hope: MY daughter basically taught herself to use SL when she was 10. Perhaps, the learning curve is a temporary problem;

toBe Destiny: smiles

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yes, you can reduce the orientation panic with pre-made accounts. We are permitted that by LL you know. You can even recycle them if you change the passwords

toBe Destiny: the notion of dysfunction comes to mind

Hour Destiny: Another probable issue is when things go wrong and a student wants help. The Lindens are horrible in this regard.

Icsconnect Voom: We have to remember that only 17 years ago we all thought the internet was a pure waste of time and some even thought it was evil

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: you missed our aerospace and defense panel, toBe. They knew all about warfare.

toBe Destiny: so the notion that truth might be told about the nature of discussion in these chats..

toBe Destiny: well that is a bit much for some

Hour Destiny: Dick, that's how long I've been online and I liked it.

Profdan Netizen: Premade avies are fine for one or two time activities; students really need their own avie if you meet regularly in SL.

Sheila Yoshikawa: @Hour me too ;-))

toBe Destiny: of course the problem is that this topic is never allowed to develop into a real discussion

Hour Destiny: Agreed, toBe.

Icsconnect Voom: You can also transfer the premades to the student

Joyfull Tomorrow: you can transfer the premade avis over if necessary

Marc Rexen: Agreed Prof. Dan...but it can get folks started without frustration and frustration so kills learning.

toBe Destiny: .

toBe Destiny: [14:51] Olivia Hotshot: Please try to be a bit more positive? Although YOU may not think the others are conducting serious work in SL, they see themselves as doing such. I am getting IMs about your comments, so if possible, please be a bit more sensitive to others around you who are working as hard as they can.

[14:51] toBe Destiny: i am as I am

[14:52] Olivia Hotshot: I understand that, however if you continue to criticize the others in attendance I'm not going to look favorably at your contributions. VWER wants a warm welcoming climate for the participants.

toBe Destiny: .

Kavon Zenovka: @ Profdan agreed - this was for a specific project and we didn't have the semeser time to do the orientation.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Dan, just so. If they are going to explore and not just do a simulation, it's best that they learn the art of customization. It depends upon the class, really.

Olivia Hotshot: so much for professionalism

Sheila Yoshikawa: Yes it all comes back in why you are using SL - if there was something with very limited functionality I'm not sure why I'd use it with students

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: she's moderator, toBe.

toBe Destiny: and what is professional about restricting discussion

toBe Destiny: yes she is

toBe Destiny: but that is part of the issue, regarding the nature and value of discussion here

Hour Destiny: toBe, the lack of time and the need to discuss other topics are probably why.

toBe Destiny: ooo

toBe Destiny: i c

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: shall we return to our topic?

Icsconnect Voom: We have and continue to develop learning re-enforcement tools in SL that are impossible to recreate in RL - Student love it

Olivia Hotshot: Yes please.

Grizzla Pixelmaid: Could we talk more in-depth about the specifics of making student avs?

Margaret Michalski: @sheila, I think it is also matter of your field and how SL can be used for education. In the future I hope to do projects that will educate patients about diseases.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Grizzla, Claudia Linden once posted a remark about how premade ones are permissible

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Margaret Michalski: @ iggy, agreed

toBe Destiny: medical education is a positive in virtual worlds, perhaps one of the best uses so far

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'll find the link to Claudia's remark if needed. Will take some hunting

Sam55 Chester: I use premade Avis Too.

Profdan Netizen: @Margaret, so are you thinking of bringing actual patients in world to learn about diseases?

Olivia Hotshot: @Samantha, do the students appreciate that?

Grizzla Pixelmaid: That would be great. Because so far I've been spending 1-2 hours per av, and that's not scalable for 40!

Kavon Zenovka: We've use them for role-play in ethnic studies and religious studies classes.

Margaret Michalski: @ dan...yes....I know a doctor who is doing a pilot study for diabetes

Wrenaria Antiesse: we use premade avis for demos... but I think students creating their own helps them take ownership of the experience... I'd hate to be handed a premade avi personally

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'll look for you, Grizzla.

Sam55 Chester: Yes but I still take them through a orientation.

Profdan Netizen: @Margaret, sounds intriguing!

Icsconnect Voom: We can't lose sight of the fact that SL can be part of blending learning

Icsconnect Voom: blended learning

Sam55 Chester: It just saves a lot of time.

Olivia Hotshot: can understand that Sam

Kavon Zenovka: @Wrenaria and it's also a time factor - how much time do you have for the students to come in and do the roleplay or the simulation.

Meredith Winslet: Orientations are most helpful

Margaret Michalski: @ Icsconnect, the students who participated in my dissertation said SL can't replace traditional learning BUT added to it.

Hour Destiny: Virtual Ability is using SL for a community for people with disabilities to get assistance. Seems some people with disabilities are finding virtual worlds easier to do education, as well as associate with others.

Alan Sandalwood: @Dick. Agreed. As long as we avoid replicating here whar we can do In RL.

Grizzla Pixelmaid: Our thought - first time into this - is to give them an av that looks interesting, doesn't look like a total noob. They can modify it if they want, but at least they've got something to start with.

Icsconnect Voom: We want them to have their own avatars, however, when getting started it makes the experience so much better

Profdan Netizen: Virtual ability's orientation is a really good one for students. Easy to follow.

Olivia Hotshot: As long as technology is not "attached" to traditional learning i think faculty have a better chance of thwarting negative impressions

Olivia Hotshot: it needs to be infused

Marc Rexen: Disagree Alan...the missing component of Distance Education is the "after class discussion between peers." This place is designed for it.

toBe Destiny: Virtual Ability has an advanced use of virtual worlds, and we are working with them

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: for the policy on premade/reused avies, see this page and scroll down:

Grizzla Pixelmaid: @Hour - my sister was disabled, and Second Life helped her maintain her sanity.

Sheila Yoshikawa: Though - actually - the noobs don't look that bad now I think

Hour Destiny: Prof. Dan, I'm proud to say that I helped them to get started and contributed materal for the orientation.

Olivia Hotshot: @Grizz - i have heard others say the same thing

Icsconnect Voom: Marc you at spot on

Profdan Netizen: @Marc, agreed--for online classes especially, best to think of SL or any 3D world as a world, a place to meet and work together.

Profdan Netizen: Very cool, @Hour!

toBe Destiny: ..namaste..

Grizzla Pixelmaid: Thanks, Ig

Alan Sandalwood: Agreed. I misunderstood your point about Blended. My blended students would not have liked tosub RL discussions with SL discussions.

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Shandily Wycliffe: Alan, why is that?

Profdan Netizen: But when you don't have RL discussions...this is much better than a 2d text chat.

Icsconnect Voom: I think we need to continue to look at the positive things we have in SL and work on making the negative positive and then we will continue to be the champions of this technology which is the future

Marc Rexen: I like the analogy of a Library don't have to talk with people, but it's nice they are around, and you can interact.

Sheila Yoshikawa: @Dan I think so - but if I have heard people who say they can see no advantage

Grizzla Pixelmaid: Sheila, do they base that on experience, or "It seems to me..."?

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: My classes have not been blended, just F2f with SL outside of class. So the issue never really came up of either/or. SL was for experiencing a simulation.

Marc Rexen: Something about studying with others, even if strangers, you don't feel "alone" and can often tap that extra hour of study.

Olivia Hotshot: Fo anyone needing the SLED list information: To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to

Hour Destiny: One huge problem with doing things in SL is the lack of support from the Lindens. I asked support a question while in charge of a sim and they still haven't answered it after two years.

Meredith Winslet: ty Olivia

Marc Rexen: Architecture studios are much like SL...bleary eyed students staying up all night working.

Olivia Hotshot: Hour, you are better off coming here and asking. There is bound to be someone who can help.

Sheila Yoshikawa: @Iggy why wouldn't you call that blended?

Grizzla Pixelmaid: Keep emailing them, Hour. That's how we FINALLY renewed our sim.

Olivia Hotshot: You're welcome Meredith.

Marc Rexen: Something about being with others taps a willingness to "overwork."

Hour Destiny: The thing is, a company without decent tech support isn't a very good company.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Sheila, I think of "blended" as meaning some meetings for class occur in SL

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: my students used it as "homework" for writing projects

Olivia Hotshot: @Iggy, which is also considered to be Hybrid by some.

Grizzla Pixelmaid: @Hour - yes indeed

Alan Sandalwood: @Shandilly. My blended students preferred RL interaction over internet. They use internet only because they cannot meet f2f often enough. They were mostl IT professionals; engineers and support people.

Alan Sandalwood: @Shandily. We were able to meet f2f 1/week. language lessons

Sheila Yoshikawa: will just throw in one of my favourite reports on blended learning • Sharpe, R., Benfield, G., Roberts, G. and Francis, R. (2006). The undergraduate experience of blended e-learning: a review of UK literature and practice. York: Higher Education Academy.

Icsconnect Voom: Some like the blended approach and some don't, however, history has proven we will adapt

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thank you, Sheila. I'll put all links up at the top of the transcript (I'm running a few weeks behind on them until my night class ends)

Lolly Dovgal: Sharing resources, such as this, are really helpful.

Sheila Yoshikawa: lol that seemed a conversation stopper

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: nothing stops us. namaste :)

Lolly Dovgal: Ha, ha.

Lolly Dovgal: I thought it was cuase I changed shirts.

Olivia Hotshot: Lolly, i agree. Plus it saves us time from re-inventing things that are already present

Joyfull Tomorrow: nope, its cause i walked away for a minute LOL

Lolly Dovgal: Hope you all don't mind me snapping so photos for the archives.

Kavon Zenovka: Btw it looks like Iggy's conversation was just moved over to HGAC listserv

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Lolly, you are great at that. Snap away!

Icsconnect Voom: getting out my comb

Olivia Hotshot: 24 on the map for the transcript

Olivia Hotshot: Lolly, snap away!!

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: oh Lord, Kavon. Do I get royalties?

Alan Sandalwood: @Iggy. Are you using SL as a sub for RL in blended?

JeanClaude Vollmar: Nope @Lolly. Just make sure you get my good side. ;)

Lolly Dovgal: Ha, ha!

Icsconnect Voom: My right side is my best side

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Alan no.

Olivia Hotshot: A question for all of you - what could we do to try and subdue the negative comments/attitude/perception of students?

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: In fact, I'll next teach in Jokaydia Grid, not SL and just for one assignment

Shandily Wycliffe: @Alan, we are trying it in some classes with mixed results

Margaret Michalski: @ them success stories for starters.

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Icsconnect Voom: I bet the negative ones are the ones that have a bad first day

Grizzla Pixelmaid: My naive impression is that we need to prepare them as well as possible. Good experience will counteract the negative attitudes.

Olivia Hotshot: Do we need better time management skills, better communication about expectations and outcomes?

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Olivia, if the students read a bit about SL first, then have a good orientation by the faculty member and lots of hand-holding, then travel in teams, it can work well.

Marc Rexen: The first day entry is so important, it scares me.

Hour Destiny: It's all in the presentation. :)

Icsconnect Voom: Spot on Grizzla

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: My students came up with the SL friend idea.

Meredith Winslet: Agreed Iggy

Shandily Wycliffe: I recently met with some students to talk about possibly using SL -- they had never been here, were just responding to popular press articles

Kavon Zenovka: @ Olivia it depends when you get the comments - before having them go in, while in orientation or during hte actual projects

Sheila Yoshikawa: Making it very clear why SL is being used and why it is relevant to what they need to learn about - or at least to some other aspect of their life like future career

Sohn Stipe: Make it more intuitive, and easy to use

Icsconnect Voom: SL mentors

Olivia Hotshot nods her head in agreement - all excellent ideas.

Lolly Dovgal: Yes, SL Mentors, is a good idea.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Shandily--yes. I had to talk to a mom on the phone about her daughter's taking my class. It went so well that by the end of the term, mom was posting to the class wiki :)

Grizzla Pixelmaid: Something I'm planning on doing soon is taking my laptop into the student center and creating avs while students are milling around and playing their computer games. Hoping to spark some curiosity and interest.

Olivia Hotshot: mentors really are a great tool in-world or out and for a number of situations

Sheila Yoshikawa: also give opportunities for people to voice fears/doubts after they have tried it, but in a positive atmosphere

Meredith Winslet: Mentors help.

Sheila Yoshikawa: agree

Lolly Dovgal: Is there anyone using a program of recruiting Mentors?

Kavon Zenovka: @ Sheila - yes in business classes - it's virtual world goods, in folklore- itls playing a role, creating a character, in religious studies and humanities - it's NPIRL.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: We set up buddies first in the editors' groups in class. Later the students picked their own buddies from among classmates, but they never traveled in SL alone

Lolly Dovgal: Say students who want to be mentors to others.?

Sheila Yoshikawa: also think it's a downer if the actual educator thinks SL is a bit alien or frightening

Olivia Hotshot: sooooo - are these students with negative perceptions and comments just a bunch of ill-informed complainers. OR do they have a "serious" gripe? =)

Marc Rexen: Military is using them in some the WA's...can't tell if it's to help new folks (often wives) or just "checking things out."

Meredith Winslet: @ Lolly -- that works also

Marc Rexen: Obvious flows of military wives into the game.

Icsconnect Voom: that is right Sheila

Sheila Yoshikawa: I have had a small minority of students who evidently did find it frightening

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: bad press about SL, one. Fear of stalkers, when you don't know the "real identity", two

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Jewle Rae: US Military is definitely using SL for training, etc. well documented on the web.

Lolly Dovgal: I like the buddy idea.

Marc Rexen: ...and just keeping families in touch.

Lolly Dovgal: Students shouldn't be afraid of a new environment.

Sheila Yoshikawa: so have to take fears seriously, talk them through, see how they could be allayed in a practical way

Lolly Dovgal: yes

Hour Destiny: NASA has authorized the use of SL for internal communications, according to CoLab.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: if they think they are talking to real people on Facebook, show them this link : The Robin Sage Experiment:

Olivia Hotshot: ty Iggy

Sheila Yoshikawa: I think people are frightened of lots of things, that's human

Grizzla Pixelmaid: Our student assistant has been helping me with some of the SL stuff - I've been trying out orientation things with him, since he's completely new to SL. He's creeped out by a lot of the SL sleaze, and unenthusiastic. :(

Icsconnect Voom: I agree with Sheila that educators out of ignorance predisposition students to either liking or disliking the virtual experience

Marc Rexen: You also see "fear from WOW," asking about guilds and whether they will be killed or not.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Viv Trafalgar sent that link to me--hat tip to Viv

Olivia Hotshot: silly question - but was anyone here afraid of dying, falling from a high place, doing risky things like race car driving, etc? i personally did not..... but i see this come up often.

Kavon Zenovka: @ Marc - we use War Hammer in our Anthropology of Folklore class and WoW in our business classes. Video games are becoming part of the culture.

JeanClaude Vollmar: I was Olivia.

Profdan Netizen: i think the fear of being addicted is actually evidence of the power of immersion in a VW--they find the pull, emotional weight of the experience compelling enough to fear being sucked in by it.

Sheila Yoshikawa: I personally wasn't with me it was ""wheeeee" from day 1

Olivia Hotshot: @Jean - of dying?

Gramma Fiddlesticks: SL can be a truly "magical place" where with nothing more than a software "piece of plywood, and a paint brush", a person with little pre knowledge, but a willingness to learn, can create some pretty powerful magic. perhaps information of that sort being passed to students could help. Just a thought....

Olivia Hotshot: @shelia - me too!

Meredith Winslet: Me too!

JeanClaude Vollmar: I was confused about the death of an avi and how that could happen. I didn't want it happening to mine so I was leery for a while of people pushing and such.

Kavon Zenovka: @ Olivia one of our sims for the religious studies class is about dying. And we do have the student have a scenario with the wrathful deities.

Marc Rexen: Bald for a I wandered, but others, found it so disruptive, they bailed within an hour.

Alan Sandalwood: @Sheila. I agree, we must use SL when its the bestr tool for the job and we must convince the sts of this.

Marc Rexen: Data will be hard to find.

Grizzla Pixelmaid: Kavon, can you give me a LM to there?

Marc Rexen: One program, offered traditional, on-campus, courses, plus on-line.

Kavon Zenovka: Actually it's a role-play so we have to login as the Herukas- Tibetan wrathful deities

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Kavon, that's stunning. I still think of Warhammer as a miniatures game.

Marc Rexen: The traditional didn't want to work with the On-line because they felt they "weren't as good."

Kavon Zenovka: @ Iggy - it works for archetypes

Profdan Netizen: That sounds very cool, Kavon.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia will be rolling the polyhedra dice in an hour, btw...TH is "Nerd Night"

Marc Rexen: Felt the issue because I did both, and sorta agree, the on-line wasn't as engaging.

Profdan Netizen: I think we need a field trip!

Kavon Zenovka: and WarHammer was easier to get on computers than WoW in that computer lab

Ignatius Onomatopoeia would LOVE to visit a game world with an educator

Marc Rexen: Only difference was the On-line did not have the "hours with peers" between classes.

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Sheila Yoshikawa: One thing - as with teaching in other environments - students' trigger things (that make them more positive to SL) can be very different - but it seems more different in SL - like for one it was an inworld assignment dropbox (!) for another a virtual cat

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: can we ask Dad...I mean AJ..if we can go?

Alan Sandalwood: Has anuyonbe had any problem with teachers fearing that they are going to be replaced by technology?

Lolly Dovgal: Not yet

Marc Rexen: As I said, very hard to research, but I have lived it, and know it exists (but the solution? :).

Icsconnect Voom: Alan I hear that all the time

Kavon Zenovka: @ Iggy we're doing WoW tours at VWBPE with JoKay and the educators from my college

Alan Sandalwood: Sorry. i hadn't realised how far the conversation changed while I was typing.

Marc Rexen: They do down in Florida.

Sheila Yoshikawa: @Alan not really hear

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Alan, you may have seen the story from Florida about teacherless classrooms with a "monitor" and a bunch of computers

Sheila Yoshikawa: here

Kavon Zenovka: and Quesidio has 2 proposals in on suing WoW in his classrooms

Shandily Wycliffe: Alan, with the push for on-line courses, that is a big concern of faculty I talk to

Lolly Dovgal: I am interested in WoW.

Alan Sandalwood: @Dick. It was a major but unsaid issue in my last job.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Here's a link to it:

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: so yes, it's a fear

Olivia Hotshot: The new Horizon report supports the supposition that games/game strategy/ etc will be more mainstream esp in terms of leadership training

Profdan Netizen: The concern about the teacherless online course has been brought up periodically for years, or making online classes operate with one instructor and a thousand students--try that with a writing class!

Alan Sandalwood: @Iggy. I saw something like that and the story from India.. I am exceedingly skeptical about replacing people with "bots" or purely self directed study.

Olivia Hotshot: Horizon Report - a VERY worthwhile read -

Brandon Quihoxil: How about replacing students with bots?

Brandon Quihoxil:

Joyfull Tomorrow: Education is one of the few things that has been stagnant for too many decades.... we still do things the way they did 100 years ago... time to move ahead

Alan Sandalwood: @Shandily. At least your colleagues are willing to discuss this.

Kavon Zenovka: We're basic projects - John does a full semester in WoW

Profdan Netizen: I did things very differently 100 years ago!

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Alan, me too. But state-houses seeking to cut spending figure that computers don't form unions and can be replaced every 3 years for a few thousand dollars.

Sheila Yoshikawa: @Joyfull yes to be honest I think things have changed a lot!

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'd love to teach from home with telepresence. I'd never retire.

Lolly Dovgal: Thanks, for sharing this, Kavon.

Sheila Yoshikawa: lol Dan

Olivia Hotshot: Thanks Kavon!!

Profdan Netizen: I'd rather do it from here, Iggy.

Alan Sandalwood: @Joyfull. I disagree with the stagnant part, but we must be willing to change. But not change for changes sake. My own field had too much of the wrong modernisation and it has led to a massive problem.

Profdan Netizen: Though, I still intend to retire someday!

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'm imagining being able to work from my farm, 40 miles from the nearest uni. That's sweeeet.

Lolly Dovgal: Oh, yeah!, Iggy, sounds perfect.

Alan Sandalwood: @Iggy. I'm now working from my living room. Sweet.

Olivia Hotshot: OK Folks, lets wrap this up with any announcements you would like to make about events or activities you want to tell the others about.

Hour Destiny: I recommend reading though you have to go thru a lot of slides.

Sheila Yoshikawa: Wow, a farm?

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Not a WoW farm :)

Alan Sandalwood: @Olivia. Aawww

Wrenaria Antiesse: haha iggy

Profdan Netizen: Or a Farmville farm!!!!!

Jewle Rae: Well, I've been a digital nomad for 3 years now. Must admit it is much more fun working that way.

Hour Destiny: This event is every week at this time and place?

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: LOL Dan--the nearest town IS Farmville, VA

Profdan Netizen: lol, seriously?!!!

Lolly Dovgal: ha ha

Wrenaria Antiesse: hahaha

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: joke

Olivia Hotshot: Yes, Hour, every thursday at 2:30

Shandily Wycliffe: My goal is to become one in the next 12 months Jewle

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: to Jokaydians...Nevermore Sim is ready for tours, even though the house is not finished at Usher. Come on by if you have a Jokaydia Grid account

Profdan Netizen: Three fourths of my classload right now is online and using SL.

Olivia Hotshot: Before we close i would like to thank everyone for coming today. i apologize that my private comments to one of the participants was posted publicly, and i trust that you all thought i was polite and stuck up for ALL of us. - nuff said now-

Sheila Yoshikawa: Iggy, can you get an account easily for Jokaydia?

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Grizzla Pixelmaid applauds ProfDan

Profdan Netizen: Do you have a hypergrid from VWERgrid, Iggy?

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: the grid is hypergrid ready

Olivia Hotshot checks to see how gray Prof Dan's hair is now

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'll find the URL for you to Jokaydia Grid in a sec

Meredith Winslet: Lol!

Icsconnect Voom: Watch your event calendar for the ICS-Connect classes - they are free and all of you are welcome

Sheila Yoshikawa: ah so I could use my VWER avi?

Olivia Hotshot: Thanks @Dick

Profdan Netizen: Very, Olivia!

Lolly Dovgal: Olivia, you are always the professional.

Kavon Zenovka: CFP for VWBPE 2/15

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: version 1.0 hypergates:

Olivia Hotshot smiles. TY Lolly.

Icsconnect Voom: Please stop by our island anytime -

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Sheila, it's easy to get an account, yes

JeanClaude Vollmar: I wish I could figure out how to hypergrid TP. I've got several different accounts now on various grids. And I'm supposedly a tech pro. LOL

Grizzla Pixelmaid: Dick, what's the slurl?

Olivia Hotshot: @Jean - i YEARN to be a pro - ain't never going to happen. =)

Kavon Zenovka: @jeanClause - it;'s about making sure your home is set usually and logging back in after you do that.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: new and improved Web site by Jokay:

Icsconnect Voom: I will drop you a LM

Alan Sandalwood: @JeanClaude . I'm having a similar problem I can't Hyperjump nohow

Kavon Zenovka: and hypergridding has gotten more "stable" over the last month


Icsconnect Voom: You can also search ICS-Connect under education

Shandily Wycliffe: @Kavon, which version are you using?

Kavon Zenovka: Imprudence

Kavon Zenovka: hasn't been a problem with it

Marc Rexen: Thank you Iggy. :)

Shandily Wycliffe: Actually, I was wondering about OpenSIm version -- we are on 7.01 and having some grid issues

Lolly Dovgal: Thanks for a great conversation today, all of you.

Kavon Zenovka: once I set my home and logged out and logged back in

Grizzla Pixelmaid: If anyone can advise me on a better system for creating an army of student avs, please see me after class. :)

Olivia Hotshot: AND: Iggy's blog post about negative reactions by students:

Shandily Wycliffe: Use an army of students?

Grizzla Pixelmaid: For a freshman English class.

Kavon Zenovka: oh and may have to adjust coordinates if they look like sl coorinates

Profdan Netizen: Thanks for the masterful moderating, Olivia.

Sheila Yoshikawa: could be the final task at the end of every class, once they have become experts - create the next generation of avis

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thank you Olivia!

Sheila Yoshikawa: Thanks Olivia

Olivia Hotshot slips off her moderator hat and relaxes. Thanks again for coming.

Icsconnect Voom: thanks Olivia

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Can I be an Orc if we go to WoW?

Kavon Zenovka: yes if you want.

JeanClaude Vollmar: I'll try some more. Maybe I'll get it. Thanks Kavon.

Meredith Winslet: Yes, thank you Olivia. Always a pleasure. : )

Kavon Zenovka: thanks - bye.

Olivia Hotshot smiles. Welcome!

Grizzla Pixelmaid: Thanks, Olivia!

Sam55 Chester: thanks all

Shandily Wycliffe: Thanks all

Margaret Michalski: Thanks Olivia

Profdan Netizen: Can you go into WoW for free, or do you have to buy a download?

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JeanClaude Vollmar: Bye all. See you next week.

Shandily Wycliffe: Free for trial

Sheila Yoshikawa: bye

Margaret Michalski: thanks....see you next week

Profdan Netizen: OK, thanks, Sheila.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Off to Nerd Night! Bye all

Shandily Wycliffe: I think it is two weeks, but you can go to their website

Alan Sandalwood: Thank you all. This was an excellent discussion, I

Margaret Michalski: lol iggy